Thursday, March 12, 2009

Fun Taverns

So, in the Fun Taverns (with the legacy heroes), we currently have:

Remade
-Old Invoker (6.12b)
-Old Lifestealer (6.48b)
-Old Silencer (6.12b)
-Old Morphling (5.84b)
-Old Stealth Assassin (5.84b)
-Old Pudge (5.51)
-Old Chen (5.64)
-Old Medusa (5.84b)

Extinct
-Gambler (6.06)
-Void Demon (3.0d)
-Rider (5.72)
-God of Wind (6.01)
-Flame Lord (5.51)
-Avatar of Vengeance (6.32b)
-Astral Trekker (3.0d)
-Bat Rider (6.00)
-Conjurer (5.51)

I want to add Old Storm Spirit (6.57b), Old Undying (6.57b), and the version of Morphling that can change attributes to the Remade tavern.

This means that there is one spot left for a remade hero, and three spots left for extinct heroes. I have half a mind to get rid of Void Demon and Astral Trekker because, let's face it, they're stupid heroes. That would make five spots for extinct heroes.

I may combine the attribute-change Morphling with the spell-change Morphling using a similar selection algorithm as the one that's been proposed for Formless, in which case there would be two spots left for remade heroes (and possibly multiple iterations of other previously remade/extinct heroes?)

So...for you people who want to see old heroes:

Remade:
1.
2.

Extinct:
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.

Fill in the blanks. No polls, I'm picking the ones I like. =P

20 comments:

Call-Me-Kenneth said...

i have only one request for the remade part:

1.old undying

i loved that hero, no one understood him i guess... now he's good too, but he's too different. so adding him would be like adding another hero. :)

for the rest i'm ok with pretty much anything... even with the removal of astral and void, they are 2 really boring heroes. :/

having different versions of formless would be nice too, the one on right now is one one of the most OP, and fun heroes ever. :) if changes are introduced on him i'd like to be able to play with the old version too.

nothing beats a 30 minutes comp-stop on formless. :)

Soul said...

Is it possible to make formless mode to be playable in non single player?

Shin.Vodk4 said...

still curious about the super imba terran marine "DARK TERMINATOR" :p .. tried to look in all of old maps v4.x but nothing *sigh* that i found

had to find the right version i think.

got this link from googling for reference which old / extinct hero want to be revive

http://forum.esnation.com/showthread.php?t=62166

or

http://forums.dota-allstars.com/index.php?showtopic=83901

and i think my request would be "old raijin", it would be nice to see him sitting in the fun bar :D

LuKaZ_TaBa said...

Hi! I'm a fan of Dota and AIs I hope you add your own hero. I vote for any of these even if they aren't remade or real Dota heroes, but they are original and cool. I hope It's ok.
http://forum.esnation.com/showthread.php?t=63897
http://forum.esnation.com/showthread.php?t=65389
http://forum.esnation.com/member.php?u=761423
*crosses fingers*

Alexander said...

If you think about removing Void Demon and Astral Trekker then maybe you may probably think about balancing Marine, Kappa and Puff for incremental build as they are even more powerfull and "boring".

And please change Kappa ultimate cause now it is most useless in the game. Why no give small percentage of accumalted stats to target without removing it from Kappa?

BuffMePlz said...

The difference is that my heroes are actually interesting (at least, I'd like to think so) from a conceptual point of view. They try things that either haven't been done before or were challenging from a programming standpoint.

Astral Trekker and Void Demon are basically poorly constructed heroes with ladder skills who've had their numbers altered. That's what I mean by "boring".

Though I do like your idea for rebalancing Bastion's ultimate.

Call-Me-Kenneth said...

i'd love to see a rebalance on the marine, maybe lowering his agi gain A LOT and removing his passive, maybe that will make him rely more on his ulti, which seems a fun ability.

but as he is now, the combination of % attack speed items + agi items + high agi gain + passive AND on top of that his high speed base attack timer, makes his auto attack too powerful.

also making his perma stun attack be a "channel" ability will balance it some more. that way the marine has to at least try to time his stun attack and try not to get stunned himself.

this way he's still a "fun" hero, but not one that after getting treads + midas + wraiths can go prawning STR heroes like he does, and farming butterfly on minute 15.

and i don't think he's a boring hero at all, i love playing range heroes, and picking Sniper on pugs is really fun... except when some nuker starts farming you. :/ lol so the marine, to me, is the reason i play the incremental builds. :)

same goes for the other "fun" heroes. i know they are supposed to be broken, but as they are they a just too broken and after 2 or three plays you already know that there's no way any comp mix can take on you. kinda takes the fun away from them.

back on topic, Shin.Vodk4 tnx for those links. my vote goes to that imba old rexxar and that old omniknigth. maybe his two versions, that very old and crazy build with so many skills and also the more standard "4 skills set"

wall of text just critted you for over 9000!

aegis213 said...

Do you know you were waste of your time?Plz add all heroes with AI first,So many heroes with no AI,and if you donot do any thing,AI map will be more and more unplayable.

BuffMePlz said...

Maintaining this map is a waste of my time. Just be grateful I do it at all for ignorant noobs like yourself.

Alexander said...

I agree that heroes from incremental map are much more interesting than old ibmas like void and trekker. But crazy numbers in their skills kill fun of playing them, especially in team. Puff resets cooldowns by changing form, Marine has crazy first and second skills that allow him to finish game about 20 minute even against -hehg, Bastion has perma invulnerability after passing 100str and 100int and in late game with 100000+ hp and HoT he can't be killed even if his player do nothing. Comparing to this guys heroes like formless or blob look more interesting cause they are powerful but not imba. Same words can be applied to items like economizer(imba) and hero's bow(just powerfull)

But in any case, thank you BMP for great incremental build. Actually I would prefer to see new interesting heroes/items added to it instead of adding retirees to "official" version.

Overflow said...

A reminder to everyone; don't vote for undying/storm spirit, BMP said he will include those anyway. I've listed my preferences in the DA forum, too lazy to copy paste. =P

In reply to Alexander, Kappa's ulti is anything but useless. Here's a favorite tactic of mine.

1) Get a friend of yours to pick Obsidian.

2) Pick Kappa, max Mind Flux ASAP, start with a Ring of Basilius.

3) Spam Mind Flux on yourself and switch Ring of Basilius as often as possible to gain intelligence.

4) If/when you get Treads, stay in your base and switch forms like crazy until your intelligence is over 9000.

5) Transfer it to Obsidian, go afk and do other stuff, game's over.

Many things can be done with his ulti, and Mind Flux can refresh it if Kappa's intelligence is over 100. I'm going to agree that its 2nd and 3rd level are useless (pointless to reduce cooldown, skill is not to be used often anyway).

Kappa losing his gained stats is a pitiful price to pay if the stats are transferred to a more suitable hero.

PS: aegis213, shut up plz k thx.

Alexander said...

I do not understand what interest in sitting on own base with Kappa just to accumulate int. Once you get 100str and 100 int you have permanent invulnerability so nobody can kill you. From this moment it is time to visit enemy fountain to get limitless STR and AGL. Obsidian with 9k int still can be killed in few seconds by disablers. Kappa with 150000 hp can't be killed by whole team even if his player do nothing.

Aegis said...

never mind,Harreke will built a new AI system.RGB's will got to its end when our AI come out.

Alexander said...

Aegis, have your mega AI already passed 1% of completion? Where can we find any builds of it?
"I will do smth" cost nothing, so please shut up until you can say "I have done smth"

Call-Me-Kenneth said...

@Overflow

"5) Transfer it to Obsidian, go afk and do other stuff, game's over."


that's exactly what's so boring about them. no skill whatsoever...


fun heroes are good enough with the fact that they don't respect the "dota philosophy" meaning, they have 2 disables or the hero hast 3 main skills, or the stats gain is too high... etc, etc.

as an example of this Maji can steal items, which is enough to make him a REALLY fun and imba hero, but he also gets a dmg multiplier (WTF), a completly overpowered disable (WTF again)... and a pseudo filler that can give him a lot of extra gold. i mean... what's so fun about him? i take a hero that can steal items, and has other 2 filler skills and a so so ulti all of wich scale with gear to make use of his item steal, but Maji as it is, is just to powerful. the only way to play him is to avoid putting points or using his skills... :/

take for example the silencer from vanilla Dota, he's got a great main skill (glaives), and a completely useless skill. (the spell thing) and he also has other two skills that can be useful but wont be most of the time (silences)... you can think of an item build for that hero, and it will take some farming and ganking to get the gold to build it, but fun heroes are just too over powered... there's no time to think, cuz you win the game with bracers and midas. :/

and the fun items... i mean wtf... i love to see a "fun" upgrade to Midas, or stuff like that... some low lvl items with fun abilitys, but what's the point on something that makes any hero (even int ones) be able to take on a whole team?

aremania_is_owning said...

if you want to play fun heroes without feel bored, try playing LAM with your friends, and each player choose a fun hero. Just like a match to found out "1st imba hero".
This way astral trekker may ends up against void demon. Or frash against darth death. Who is the most Imbalanced Hero? let's found out!

t-Dew said...

Here BMP i have your AI maps collection you can check it here!

linfavourite said...

old sand king, old sand king, old sand king!!!

ThKiller said...

Remade:
1.Old Storm
2.Old Venomancer (only for fun)
Only This! I think that it is great!

KiRpI4_91 said...

Is it possible to leave the Void Demon and Astral Trekker? These are my favorite heroes from the early versions of dota 8 (